Storytime with Hallie

A Journey of Life, Church & More


A Family Exiled:

A Place We Called Home,
A People We Called Family

by Hallie J. Carl



I gazed out over the Baltic Sea, its waters calm and peaceful. It was good to be back in Latvia. I became enchanted with its stoic beauty, strong people, and curious youth in 2019 when I was able be on a short term mission trip with a team from our church.

The Carl Family all had been on the 2019 team (and my son, Caleb had been on the 2018 team as well). Unfortunately, due to COVID, our church had to skip two years of assisting with Latvian summer camps for youth. We were able to return to Latvia in 2022.

So, nearly a year ago in July, the four members of the Carl family got on a plane with the rest of our church team, whom we had known many years, and headed to Latvia once again.

People we called family. A church we called home.

The Unhinging

What the Carl Four did not know was that we would experience a deeply traumatic moment on this trip that would change our lives forever. Toward the end of our time in Latvia, everything became unhinged.

A foreign country. A mental health crisis. A suicidal son.

If you know someone who has the diagnosis of epilepsy, you know that despite treatment and meds, episodes are difficult to predict or control. They happen suddenly and when they do, it is a hard situation. For the people who are around to see the seizure, but mostly for the person who had the seizure themselves. It is no ones fault. If the person could choose to stop having epilepsy, they most certainly would.

Bipolar Disorder is very similar to epilepsy (in fact, many of the same medications treat both). With bipolar, a manic episode can happen despite medication and close contact with psychologists and psychiatrists. When the manic episode comes, it is difficult for the people who are around to see it, but worse for the person who has experienced it. It is no ones fault. If the person could choose to stop having bipolar disorder, they most certainly would.

“Mental health is a lot of things. But one thing it’s not, is someone’s fault,” said Beth Moore in her memoir All My Knotted Up Life.

Mental Health Crisis

My oldest son, Caleb, has bipolar disorder. So when he had a manic bipolar episode in this foreign country on a church mission trip, as you can imagine, this was a very scary time. Mostly for Caleb, but also for his family (and also for our church team and the students at the camp). What the Carl’s needed were the people we called family, who fully knew about Caleb’s mental health struggles, to come alongside us. To be an empathetic embrace. To sit with us in our pain. To step up into places that might have made them uncomfortable, transparent in their own struggles, joining together to bring strength in a time we desperately needed it across the board.

But, most importantly, in my opinion, I needed those people who had known my son since he was born to remind him that his life had indescribable worth. To them and to the world. Instead, he was met with strangeness, distance, silence, and rejection. The absolute last thing a suicidial person needs is rejection. And rejection, perceived or real, might be enough to push someone over the edge to believe the lie that they should die.

Had he not felt this rejection and silence, he would not have remained suicidal. Part of what helps him regulate is to be assured of the love from those closest to him.

I know and understand that being a bystander to this moment in our lives was a difficult one. I also know that for some people, seeing a mental health crisis may have been triggering for them.

I later learned that our church team and church leadership believed that as a pastor on staff at our church, I should have been caring for the others on the team, rather than my kid. Apparently, the fact that this was one of the darkest moment of my own life and that I had a son who remained suicidial, should not have precluded me from serving others and leading well.

I believe we are called to care for those in deepest need. In this particular instance, the greatest need was my son. My goal each moment was to ensure his safety and bring stability.

Candidly, I assumed this would be the goal for the team too. That they would do what it took to ensure that Caleb not only knew they loved him, but that they would display the stubborn, relentless, powerful love of Jesus.


Pictured: Caleb, in Latvia with a student in 2018. Showing the love of Jesus.

One son, Caleb, still struggling with suicidial thoughts, was dealing with the emotions of why his church family wasn’t reaching out to him after a mental health crisis. Also, he was processing the news that he wouldn’t be allowed to return to camp. Not to say goodbye to students he had known for four years, not to comfort them if they were scared, not to explain that what happened was part of the disorder he had and had shared about in his testimony.

Having a moment like that, I believe, would have been immensely healing for the students, leaders and for my son. Instead, he was treated like something they needed to hide away, get rid of, and cut off.

Also, he got the news that he would not be allowed to go to the camp’s concert, the very thing they had been working on all week. This concert was public. But he would not be allowed to attend, even in the balcony.

Again, having a moment like that, I believe would have been healing for the students, leaders and for my son.


Pictured: Isaiah, with the same student in 2022. Showing the love of Jesus.

My other son, Isaiah, was left back at the camp without his mom, dad and brother, trying to hold it together and encourage his team to do the right thing. He asked the team to reach out to his brother, stating how helpful this would be for him, especially in his current state. Unfortunately, one of the team leaders told the them to not reach out to Caleb. The leader said they needed to focus on camp. No one was expecting camp to not happen, or that it wasn’t important. However, it also takes an absolutely minuscule amount of time to text someone. “I love you. Are you ok? I am here for you.

So, Isaiah carried on at camp, doing what everyone expected him to do: Pull it together, push feelings aside, do what’s necessary. Tuck those hard feelings: worry, anger and isolation down. No one asked him if he wanted to take a walk and have someone just be with him, to support him with the ministry of presence. He felt alone. And disappointed. And angry.

My husband, Lee, was by Caleb’s side as he was exiled away from camp and sent to Riga, the capitol city in Latvia. Lee was busy trying to open conversations with the leaders from his team, with next to no reply. No returned calls or returned texts. He also was keeping our church at home up to date, despite time changes and his own trauma.

This whole time, I was in a different city than the rest of my family. Gratefully, my small team (both from our church and the Latvian leaders) in Ventspils were being loving and caring.

So, when Isaiah called me the night following Caleb’s manic episode weeping, I was ready to hop in a car immediately to go pick him up. He needed someone to care for him. Lee was with Caleb. Isaiah should be with me. He was committed to stay until the concert, but I asked him if he would like to go with me after that. He checked with the leadership of our church leaders as well as the Latvian leaders and they approved it.

It wasn’t even a question in my mind. Isaiah needed support. Gratefully, my team in Ventspils was open to this. I knew they would care well for Isaiah too. And they did. We were so grateful for this. In fact, I wished that Caleb and Lee were there too.

Pictured: Isaiah and me with the Latvian Ventspils team
in the garden of a beautiful woman named Alda.
Beautiful place, beautiful people.


– Back in Riga –

Once the entire team was reunited in Riga, we were scheduled to have a short debrief time where Caleb had been given permission to share his heart with the team by our Lead Pastor back home at church. For Caleb, this moment was really necessary.

I believe that when someone has a mental health crisis, they feel such a loss of their voice. On top of that, they feel judgement and shame for something they have no control over. Their disorder takes over. And then when events spin out afterwards, it makes them feel even more broken. Caleb needed his voice heard. He needed the team to know how much they had hurt him by not reaching out.

This meeting was a disaster. Going into it, in an epic display of naiveté, I believed it would end in a group hug, with tears and love.

Rather, people were silent as he spoke, averting gazes, with the exception of one teammate who rolled their eyes and scoffed at my suicidal son. At least one person (but I believe three) recorded this meeting without our knowledge or permission.

When Caleb was unable to speak anymore and asked his father to continue for him, Lee was cut off repeatedly by the facilitator of the meeting. In desperation for my husband to be listened to and respected, I spoke words that would later be held against me: “Please listen to him. Lee is a mission’s elder.”

I knew the second the phrase was out of my mouth that it wasn’t the right thing to say. But I was desperate to be heard and understood. I was soon to find out that being heard and understood was not going to happen. At all. Ever.

I was later told by leadership that when I said these words “Lee is a mission’s elder,” it was, “The worst mistake that you ever could have made.”

Lee has wisdom and I desperately hoped his voice would bring reason and empathy and understanding for the group. That it could lead us to health. Rather, he was cut off, and the time ended in disaster.

Caleb said, “I just needed to know you all loved me.”

Silence hung in the room. The air felt heavy, weighted down with judgement and anger, rather than empathy and grace.

I sat there, incredulous. How do you not tell someone who is suicidal, “I love you,” and run over with a hug? My body shook. My heart racing. My eyes twitched. My friend, Shelby, next to me put her hand on my leg to steady me.

Finally, one teammate told Caleb, “You know I love you,” which was a start but not nearly what Caleb needed. It seemed obligatory rather than heart felt. And the truth was, Caleb actually didn’t know that any of them loved him. Love was not shown. Love was not felt. Love was not spoken.

Echoing silence met us again, except for the scoffer, and averted gazes, except for the eye roller.

In that moment, that day, time slowed for me. I knew that something in side of me had been shattered and no one was ever going to be able to put me back together again.


– No Welcome Home For Us –

We came home to the leadership of our church seeking to attach blame on my husband and myself. When we met with them for the first time upon our return home, their opening prayer began with a plea for the “truth” to come out. These words confounded me. There was no truth to uncover. We had been completely forthright, honest. There was a mental health crisis on a mission trip. A suicidal kid who needed support. A family desperate for the ministry of presence.

What the entire returning team needed, upon our arrival home, was a collective expression of embrace, empathy and trauma informed care from the church leadership. Empathy is not finite, there is enough for everyone. We don’t have to conjure a bad guy. A tone and heart that each person’s experience was valid and the encouragement that they would step with us as we all healed. We had been through something difficult. But it could be repaired.

Peter A. Levine, PhD, holds doctorates in both medical biophysics and psychology said, “Trauma is not what happens to us, but what we hold inside in the absence of an empathetic witness.”

Our family acutely felt the absence of empathetic witnesses in this time. In fact, I actually felt most of the trauma from all of this came from the church leadership once we got home. Postmortem meetings and moments felt like inquisitions. Blame without empathy met me with the force of a mack truck. Its collision left me breathless, shaking, traumatized and confused.

My husband and I spent time before the Lord to see what He was leading us in. We handed out heartfelt apologies to everyone we could think of that we may have brought pain or frustration to, deeply wanting to bring about healing and restoration. Yes, I had let my anger, hurt and frustration show. I wasn’t there for them the way they needed. I said that Lee was an elder which may have seen as manipulative or an abuse of power. While in my heart, I knew the reasons why these moments happened and they felt justified, I could have done better and desired reconciliation and restoration so I apologized.

Apologies also began to be tricky. We would apologize over and over, sharing what sin we had confessed before the Lord. But then, those same confessions and apologies would be held against us as the leadership would bring it up again and again. Spinning circles around our situation and our pain. I felt like a hamster caught on a wheel of torture that I couldn’t get off.


– Exiles –

Isaiah, who wanted to be a pastor and was working at the church in the Minister in Training Program, was let go. He was told that the program was being suspended for the time being and they would revisit it in the future. His computer was cleared off his desk before he had a chance to save all the photos and notes from his mission trip to North Africa earlier that year. No public goodbyes from the staff for him. No public thanking him for his work.

This isn’t loving your neighbor as yourself. This isn’t Jesus.


Caleb was also not allowed to go on the Young Adults Retreat shortly after Latvia. Why? He has bipolar disorder. This was deeply painful and unfair. Not to mention illegal to not let someone do something because of a medical issue. No one would tell someone with epilepsy or cancer or any other disease they couldn’t go on a public church trip.

He left the meeting and came to my office door. He was brokenhearted and hurt. I hugged him and we left.

This isn’t loving your neighbor as yourself. This isn’t Jesus.


I was forced to take a mandatory sabbatical.* They said it was mandatory but not punitive.

When I clarified if it was punitive, (because it certainly felt like it was) I was met with two responses. The first leader said, “No, Hallie, it’s not. We want to care for you.” The second leader said, “Well, actually Hallie, you have done so much wrong.” My mind spinning.

This isn’t loving your neighbor as yourself. This isn’t Jesus.


– Let’s Talk and Talk and Talk and Talk –

Imagine experiencing the hardest thing you have ever experienced and then you have to talk about it, be questioned about it, over and over and over again.

I wasn’t familiar with the term gaslighting until this happened to me.

I had never felt so misunderstood in my life. I have never had my words used against me or twisted like this before. I had never had someone always assuming the worst about me. I had never had to work at trying to have people understand my perspective like I did in the inertia of this season. So many meetings (upwards of ten a month over six months) where I sat: trauma building, my body shaking, my eyes constantly crying, desperate to be heard and understood, but experiencing the opposite.

And this doesn’t account the endless hours that the four Carl’s sat together, processing, seeking to understand. How did it come to this? What do we do?


Words Spoken To Us

Church Leadership:
“Hallie, do you think you can be a pastor and Caleb’s mom?”

Church Leadership:
“Hallie, we can’t trust you not to do this again.”

Church Leadership:
“Hallie, you’ve made the worst mistake you could ever make.”

Church Leadership:
“Have you even prayed about this?”

Church Leadership:
“Hallie, you have destroyed the church’s relationship with Latvia.”

A Pastor:
“Isaiah, you are a liar.”

Church Leadership:
“Hallie, it’s time for us to look for a new Women’s Pastor. We can’t hold your position open forever while you’re on sabbatical.”

One person from the team:
I don’t understand why you couldn’t care for me.
Me, “My son was suicidial.”
Them, “I know, but I still needed you to care for me.”
Me, “I was busy trying to keep my suicidial son alive.
Them, “I know, but you’re my pastor. You should have been able to care for me.”
Me, “I really don’t know how much more clear I can be. My son was suicidial. My priority was there.

But the most hurtful for me was one person from the team who said to Lee and me, “If I could go back, I wouldn’t change anything.” In this statement, I was assured that there was a wall up from anyone seeing how we felt. How anyone on this trip could feel like there was nothing they would change was impossible to me. How could you not wish you just told Caleb you loved him? Asked him if he was ok? They were losing us, and it didn’t even seem to matter.

While we were committed to work this out, after a grueling six months of having to defend ourselves we were at a precipice. Do you continue to have the same accusations hurled against you? Do you continue to submit yourself to trauma? Do you continue to wait for each email or meeting or phone call or text to drop another bombshell on us, shattering us more and more each time.

It became clear this was no longer a safe place for us. We were not only misunderstood, but were actively being harmed. We had tried to do the work of reconciliation, but at a point it seemed impossible due to people’s inability to actually want to hear us.


There seemed, at the end of the day, to be a vastly different understanding of the greatest commandment. In Matthew 22: 37-39 says, “Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.”

When you seek to live your life loving God and loving others, it doesn’t matter what a person’s story is. They are worthy of love. You also have an understanding that God is the only loving judge.

George Woodruff said, “The test of Christianity is not loving Jesus, but loving Judas.”

Bryan Stevenson said, “The true measure of our character is how we treat the poor, the disfavored, the accused, the incarcerated and the condemned.”

The mentally ill man, the convicted felon, the woman whose child is in child protective services, the person who has different political beliefs, someone who looks different, sounds different or sees things differently. All are worthy of not just love, but lavish love. Stedfast love. And kindness. So much kindness.


– This is your fault –

Strangely, the church seems to be more comfortable blaming mental illness on behavioral issues and demonization and ignoring medical experts. Caleb has had several different types of scans and tests done on his brain and they show the areas that the bipolar disorder effects. This is a clinical, medical diagnosis. It is not a behavioral issue. And to suggest it is is deeply insulting and wrong.

You wouldn’t tell someone with cancer, “Your behavior caused this to happen. This is your fault.”

You wouldn’t tell someone with a degenerative heart disorder, “You behavior caused this to happen. This is your fault.”

You wouldn’t tell someone with hemophilia, “Your behavior caused this to happen. This is your fault.”

So why do we say to someone in the church who has mental illness, “You behavior caused this to happen. Ignoring medical evidence completely. How impossibly horrible.

This isn’t loving your neighbor as yourself. This isn’t Jesus.


– Coming to a Close –

I went on the mandatory sabbatical days after our women’s retreat in August. The retreat will always be held in my heart as a very special time. I saw God do some amazing things. They remind me that He used me and that I had a calling there.

I was one of the speakers for the retreat. As I stood and looked out of these precious women who I loved deeply, I knew that I would soon be stepping down from my job for awhile. I didn’t know I was stepping down permanently.

Here’s the thing: I loved my job. So much. I loved teaching women, counseling women, getting to know women. I loved walking with them, sharing the love of Christ with them. I loved it so much.

The last day I worked before I started my sabbatical, my assistant and dear friend, Jeanetta and I did copious amounts of planning for the season ahead. We cried. We talked. I packed up a few things from my office that I thought I might need while I was at home. Then, I walked out to my car. I had one last thing to do.

There was a graceful, spunky woman named Carolyn who was in her 90’s. I had originally met Carolyn when she took a class I was teaching on the book of James. She know’s God’s word forward and backward.

However, she had fallen and broken her hip. I stopped at a Walgreens and picked up a Squishmallow (in my opinion, there is no better thing to bring to someone hurting than a Squishmallow), and drove to the hospital. When I walked in, she lit up. We visited. We laughed. I prayed for her. And when she was getting tired, I hugged her and said goodbye.

Carolyn still texts me to see how I am and to let me know she is praying for me. I am really grateful that last thing I did as a Pastor was to visit this beautiful lady. I drove home that day in tears.


– Your Past is Dead and Gone –

I went for a walk the day that Lee and I were going to meet with the leadership for the last time. We were ready to let them know that I was resigning. The Carl Family, who had been actively serving for 27 years: worship team, youth ministry, children’s ministry, worship team at camps, Mexico Missions, Kenyan Missions, Latvian Missions, North African Missions, teaching, VBS, a Pastor on staff and an Elder, were leaving the church.

A place we once called home, a people we once called family, no longer.

I was listening to music that morning as I walked my dog. One song’s lyrics stopped me in the middle of a grassy field. As the clouds drifted by, I wept as I listened to the words, spoken by Jesus over me:

“I’m standing at your door
My heart is calling yours
Come fall into My arms
You’re weary from it all
Been running for too long
I’m here to bring you home

Look up and lift your eyes
The future’s open wide
I have great plans for you,
Your past is dead and gone
Your healing has begun
I’m making all things new”

It was time.

A place we once called home, a people we once called family, no longer.

He was making something new.


Footnotes:

  • **My sabbatical was unpaid. While they offered to pay me, we asked that they would not. Many people, at this time thought that we were having a ton of fun on with my paychecks from church. This couldn’t be farther from the truth.
  • You may wonder, why tell all this now, nearly a year later?
    We have heard many people tell us things they have heard and most of those things are peppered with inaccuracies. Also, the amount of general gossip happening is disheartening. I recently heard that someone that a friend shared with them that they, “Knew the whole story.” Following this, my friend gave me this advice: “Hallie, you need to tell your story. Because if you don’t, someone else will tell it for you and it won’t be right.” I felt this advice was from the Spirit. So here we are.
  • This is the first time I’ve written in more detail about the events that happened in Latvia. It is a complex story, with a lot of people involved. As you can imagine, it is difficult to begin to try to put such a complex topic in print. But for the purposes of this blog, I am just sharing my experience and my feelings. I have tried to protect the church in conversations I’ve had and even in my posts so far. I ask that you extending grace in this process for all of us. It’s been ridiculously hard for everyone. There were many people who did amazing things. People who stood by us and supported us. We are grateful.
  • This is just an overview. There is so much more to this story. I may get to it in future posts.
  • Also, shout out to Liena, a Latvian who Caleb met in 2018 who, when she heard what was going with Caleb after his manic episode, she and her family drove for hours to meet Lee and Caleb in Riga during their time of exile. They spent time with them and showed them some amazing things in Latvia, bringing light to a very dark time.
  • Pictured below: Shout out to Shelby and Inguna who took Caleb and Lee to a movie and made them dinner when they were sent to Riga. Awesome humans that we adore.

Pictured left to right: Hallie, Lee, Agne, Caleb,
Valerija, Isaiah, Endija, Lina, Elza, Sarah and Kenny.

Love these beautiful people.




Look for Part Two of this post, coming soon!



40 responses to “A Family Exiled:”

  1. Sherry Powell Avatar
    Sherry Powell

    Hallie, I could feel your pain when you spoke at the retreat. I admire your courage and our Lord will put you and your family on a new journey. Many blessings and prayers

    Liked by 2 people

  2. Proud of you for speaking out, Hal. ♥️

    Liked by 1 person

  3. Hallie Carl, my beautiful friend. I love you! I am so powerfully proud of you for being brave enough to tell your story. I am heart broken that “the church” has failed you and your beautiful boys so horribly but in the same breathe I am so floored by your faith in JESUS along the way. Thank you for being that example!!! Forever here to remind you, Caleb, Isaiah and lee WE LOVE YOU!!!

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Kirsten, you are the best. Love you so much

      Like

  4. Dan and Terri Avatar
    Dan and Terri

    Thank you for sharing, we love you!

    Liked by 1 person

  5. Christina Marcus Avatar
    Christina Marcus

    Oh, Hallie my heart mama heart hurts reading this. I am so very sorry you and your family, especially Caleb were treated in such a horrible way… and by people you held close to your heart. As an individual myself, who suffers from depression and anxiety all my life, I understand completely how much Caleb needed to feel and be shown love durring that hard time. I pray you all are recovering and healing and I pray harder that God will use this in such a way that reach many others. You all have so much Jesus love to share and I can’t wait to see it explode out on others. Mental Health is hard, bus God is so great and he has left a deep imprint on your soul. I send my love and pray I see you back up front teaching on God’s endless love! Stay prayerful, stay strong and love on those kids just like you have been doing. There are many of us that are proud you stood up!!!

    Liked by 1 person

  6. Barbara Mac Dermot Avatar
    Barbara Mac Dermot

    Hallie I’m so sorry you had to go through this. How hurtful. I can relate in many ways. I pray God brings you to a safe place where you and your family can serve.

    Liked by 1 person

  7. Colton Meo here, another former RMCC lifer from 1995-2016.

    Y’all know I love y’all and the Carl’s were always one of the main reasons I still believed in a church like RMCC (there was and is many reasons not to). I always thought “as long as the Carl’s are there, Jesus’ incarnate love will still be felt deeply.

    When some rmcc people prioritized programs, you prioritized people. When some pastors focused on people giving of their money, the Carl’s focused on giving people their time and love. When some rmcc people shamed my family, the Carl’s accepted us and embraced us.

    I know leaving rmcc feels like losing so much. Losing family, community, belonging, and even losing your whole city. There’s nothing I can say that will change that, make it better, or erase any of the pain of the last few years.

    But, as someone who has also walked the road away from churches like RMCC, I can promise you that there’s life ahead for you all. Life in community. Life in love. Life in Jesus. Life abundant.

    In a season of looking back and experiencing so much loss, I hope that you get glimpses of the beauty, freedom, and joy of Jesus that is ahead of you. His life is not confined to the walls of rmcc or any other church building. His purposes are not restricted to the budgets of rmcc. His mission isn’t bound to the mission of rmcc. His vision for you doesn’t end when rmcc’s vision of you does. You know this, but to reaffirm from someone on the other side: Jesus is still here. Still alive. Still with you.

    I’m always here to talk. Tell Isaiah he can reach out to me anytime he wants to talk about what it means to be rejected for pastoral ministry and how to refind Jesus and leadership in the midst of that.

    Genuinely praying for you all in the weeks ahead ❤

    Liked by 1 person

  8. Hallie, Lee, Caleb and Isaiah – my heart breaks for you. I (obviously) had no clue this was happening and I can only say I love you all. I hear you. I believe you and I believe IN you, and the future that Jesus has prepared for you all. I’m so sorry.

    Liked by 1 person

  9. Oh, Hallie! I am reading and crying…. I would love to hug You and be besides You. This had been so hard season in so many ways for You and Your family. And I hope Lord – step by step would show You all – the way, the blessing, new chapter. You are faithful to Him and that sounds throw Your story! And He never let You go, never left. Please greet Your sons and Lee! Your family is in our hearts, You showed love and cares in so many ways. And words that You destroyed relationship with Latvia – is so hard and unfair. Lies! My heart hurts in those unfair words. We love You and hope to see Your family in Ventspils – in our home! You are very welcome!

    Liked by 1 person

  10. coulterfam1999 Avatar
    coulterfam1999

    Hallie,

    <

    div>This is so unbelievably raw, powerful, and beautifully written. You did a magnificent job explaining your story, and probably the best part is how often you talked about Jesus’ love, and wh

    Liked by 1 person

  11. Kaitlyn Tyler Avatar
    Kaitlyn Tyler

    Hallie, thank you so much for sharing. My heart is absolutely broken hearing the hurt and exile your family has experienced.
    I am eternally grateful for you. You loved and supported me in some of the darkest moments of my life. When my life felt scary and unpredictable, when I needed a safe place, you were there for me.
    Thank you for being an example of Jesus’ love to me and thank you for sharing your heart in this. 💗

    Liked by 1 person

  12. Brady Daniels Avatar
    Brady Daniels

    This. This was brave. Though it may not feel like it, your story is important to share. Thank you for sharing your story. May you and yours feel/experience immense rest and peace in the days to come. ❤️

    Liked by 1 person

  13. Jennifer Davis Avatar
    Jennifer Davis

    Hallie, I have been praying for you and your family since I heard you had stepped down as women’s pastor. I haven’t reached out sooner because I didn’t know if it would feel like an intrusion, since you don’t know me very well. But truthfully, we can say we know exactly how you feel, having gone through something very similar. I would love to talk to you if you have time, it might help with the healing process for both of us. But just know that I will continue to pray for your entire family.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. I would love to get together Jennifer. Do you still have my number?

      Like

  14. I didn’t know any of this, but knowing you and your beautiful, faithful heart, I knew that it had to be deep and excruciating. I’m so so terribly sorry. I look forward to the day that Jesus makes everything right. He’s the only one that can ever take something so convoluted and wrong and bring something beautiful out of it. In the meantime, don’t lose heart. I continue to pray for healing and restoration and wholeness for everybody involved. I miss having you around, sister. Love and hugs.

    Liked by 1 person

  15. Hallie, this is Annie (Kristen’s mom) from RMCC many years past. I just read your blog as Kristen shared it. My heart breaks for the horrible mistreatment and pain your family experienced. You are so correct — NOT like Jesus (in any way). I have so many more thoughts I could expresss from anger to grief, but will hold them and just say tears are streaming down my face. The courage to write tbis is commendable and maybe there is a someone or two who reads it and step back and evaluates their heart and mind on this topic of mental health and what it looks like to be Jesus.
    I don’t know where you are in your search for a new church home. We go to Mission in Gilbert. Our new, young pastor, Landon, has his own journey with mental health. He has shared his struggles from the pulpit with courageous vulnerability. Our church’s response is to wrap our arms around him as we do others. I’m in my 10th year here and can tell you God brought me here for a reason. The love and care ‘For Everyone’ has been genuine and consistent. Many people have experienced healing here, including myself. Maybe this could be a place for your family… maybe a place for healing?
    I will keep you and your family in my prayers. May God hold you closeand bring you all to a place of complete healing, bringing good, as He promises to do, from this heartbreak. In His hands each and every moment.
    Annie

    Liked by 1 person

  16. It’s been 20 years since I left Mesa and RMCC. I just want to echo along with many others how deeply sorry I am for what you have had to experience in this whole ordeal. Not right, not fair, not loving.

    I appreciated the quote you shared by Dr. Peter A. Levine
    “Trauma is not what happens to us, but what we hold inside in the absence of an empathetic witness.”

    You were courageous to share your story publicly (not to mention what a great writer you are). I have no doubt that it will be a pathway to healing not just for you and your family, but many other witnesses as well. Jesus is already saving, no actually treasuring the tears being shed on your behalf, for your pain. And those tears are so very valuable. Not one shed in vain.

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  17. Wow! Love your transparency! So many parallels, and feel your raw emotions. We left just before you did and are in a much smaller fellowship with many challenged people and we fit right in. The love is immense and checking in on each other for support. Would love to share with you and will message you my number.❤️❤️ This part of the body of Christ loves you and your family dearly as you have been instrumental in each of OUR children’s (adults now) lives!!

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Absolutely, I would love to talk! Message me on FB and we can exchange numbers. Love you Linda

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  18. This broke me. I am so so so sorry that this has happened to you and your fam. As a mother I can’t even imagine the heartache you have felt from people/a place that is supposed to feel safe. I believe you, I believe Caleb. You are heard & you are so loved!

    Liked by 1 person

  19. Suzanne Campbell Avatar
    Suzanne Campbell

    Hallie, we got similar treatment eleven years ago. I am also bipolar. We understand and extend all the grace and love we possess. It took ten years, but we’ve found a safe place. I will listen to anything you need to say to process this horrible experience. I am here for your family, any time. You were always the best part of rmcc for Grace. Reach out if you still can. There are people who will extend love to all of you. Don’t give up yet.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Thank you for this. I am so sorry for your experience too. I am so glad you’ve found a safe place! Will definitely keep reaching out to Grace.

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  20. Suzanne Campbell Avatar
    Suzanne Campbell

    Hallie, Lee, Caleb, and Isaiah–We hear you. We see you. We are here for whatever you need. Terry and Suzanne Campbell.

    Liked by 1 person

  21. Oh My Dear Hallie Girl. Dad & I love you so much and are so proud of all four of you. You’ve always been a splendid writer but, to be able to spill out your heartfelt feelings had to be very difficult. To have this happening to our dear sweet wonderful Caleb is way beyond anything I could have ever imagined. Then, for our dear sweet wonderful Zay – his love & devotion to his brother is unwavering & so strong & true. Lee is a strong , honest man totally devoted to taking care of his family through Faith & Love & belief in Jesus. And of course, you being the person you are, with your heart being so full of love & understanding, to have anyone doubt you is unbelievable. I pray that God will bring you all through this & into a place of Love, Peace & Joy once again. He always carries us through the really tough stuff as He’s doing now. Caleb will be healed, I’m sure of it. The Hosch 14 all love each other so much . God is holding us up, every minute, every day, every situation. xox

    Liked by 1 person

  22. Stevy Fletcher Avatar
    Stevy Fletcher

    Oh Hallie … my Mama heart breaks for you. I don’t know your family well but Kyle has always talked so highly of your family. As someone who has a family member with bipolar disorder and has had manic episodes, it’s so heartbreaking to hear this. It TRULY is a mental disorder and I’m so sorry that he is being defined by that. I look forward to seeing where your sweet family lands and to see God continue to work in your lives! I truly believe God will use Caleb and your family for GOOD and help bring more awareness! Lots of love to you guys!!

    Liked by 1 person

  23. Lauren Miller Avatar
    Lauren Miller

    Love you Hallie!

    Liked by 1 person

  24. Cheryl Merrill Avatar
    Cheryl Merrill

    Hallie, I only know you from coming to church for the monthly women’s group several years ago. It pains me to hear that your son and your family are battling mental health challenges. From experience, there is nothing like it. You are an incredible woman and family and I hope that this dark time will draw you even closer to the Savior who understands perfectly all that you are going through. Peace to you and yours!

    Liked by 1 person

  25. Hallie,
    You know I don’t express myself very eloquently but I want you to know I hurt for you and your family. Still praying for you and your family. Have been since before this experience and have been consistently since. Know I love you and only wish God’s blessings upon you. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, feelings and hurts. That is brave. God bless.

    Liked by 1 person

  26. Shelby Holbrook Avatar
    Shelby Holbrook

    It makes me so sad to hear that your family experienced this. You have always been a wonderful mentor and leader and you made a huge difference in my life as a child. Your children are lucky to have a mom like you and the members of church just as fortunate, though not anymore. Nothing stays the same and I think you’re on to the next, even more fulfilling chapter!! 🫶🏻

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  27. Yvonne Bullard Avatar
    Yvonne Bullard

    I understand much of your pain. We experienced a very similar rejection when our oldest teenage son got involved with drugs. We were very involved in our church and our boys grew up with this church family. But when we needed understanding and support, we saw both of our sons be rejected and judged by their church family. What hurt the most was the damage done to their faith. You are always a mother first. You were wise to remove your family. You are all in my prayers. Unfortunately we never did find another church family. I’ve tried Red Mountain several times over the years, but it never was a fit. But God and I are still good!

    Liked by 1 person

  28. Hallie,
    First of all, I’m so sorry for the pain that all this caused your family. Although I wasn’t there, I know it was a horrible situation for everyone involved. I always looked up to you and Lee and I’m sad we don’t see you on campus anymore.

    With that said, as a volunteer at the church who tries to love and lead kids, I’m also hurt by this post and caught in what seems to be an unnecessary attack on the church. I know your logic was that you wanted to make sure your story was told, but to be honest nobody I know at the church was talking about this and this post just seemed to stir the pot.

    I am genuinely frustrated that this turned into a public conversation over a difficult disagreement and an even more difficult situation. Unless you think that the church leadership are not truly trying to listen to the Lord, I really don’t see why this had to be a public post… I guess I just don’t see how this post helps build the kingdom.

    Sorry if this is direct, but I just wanted to share my thoughts.

    Praying for your family,
    Church volunteer

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    1. Hello Volunteer,

      I am sorry you were hurt by my post. I am grieved you felt that it is an unnecessary attack on the church. While I can understand this defensiveness, it leads me to believe that you didn’t actually read it take in my blog. It was not an attack, it was a former pastor (and elder) sharing a horrific experience that we endured in the church we loved. I am also sad that you feel frustrated that we made it “public conversation.” I wish for just a moment you had sat with me for just one of the many private conversations. I held more than you can ever know in for longer than you can imagine. They caused so much damage to me. I have extensive PTSD, trauma, depression and anxiety now.

      While I am glad you haven’t heard anyone talk about it, that is not the experience of others. I have had many friends who have heard many people talking and making assumptions or asking questions. It is naive to think that because you haven’t heard something that no one is saying anything.

      You asked if we think the church leaders aren’t listening to the Lord. A would like to point out that Lee and I were church leadership that were listening to the Lord (and continue to) and we felt pushed out.

      You questioned how this can build the kingdom. I have had over 200 people reach out to me who have been hurt or are hurting. Jesus called me to love others well. To love them as much as I love myself. To do everything I can to do everything in love. Right now, He has plucked me up and sat me down in a new ministry: caring for the many in the flock who are exiled, hurt by, talked about, laughed about, or misunderstood in churches. A new calling. And I am answering.

      I am not attempting to pull people away from Jesus. In fact, one of the beautiful things about people coming together with common pain, is we can encourage each other and hold each other closely in the love of Jesus.

      We are being held so tenderly by my King, my Shepherd and my Great Physician. Jehova Rapha. The Healing One. The only one worthy to judge. The one who has hesed love for me and my family (and for yours). He holds me gently and loves me in my most heartbroken state. I am so grateful that it is He that holds my grief, and not those who act in the flesh. Because my flesh is full of wounds right now that only He can heal.

      When I cook something in a pot, and I don’t stir it, what is closest to the heat gets burned, stuck and destroyed. What is on top looks good still, but it is hiding what has been ruined. Sometimes stirring is an important step in making sure that ALL people are cared for.

      It is a wretched thing when people who are religious (Pharisees) cannot see the damage they do to a flock by not caring for the unlovely, difficult or challenging. I am so grateful that Jesus did that, time and time again.

      I forgive you for the assumptions you have made about me. I am sorry that this conversation couldn’t happen in person with more love and caring, rather than judgement.

      I hope in time you would read my post again, carefully, and hopefully also my post entitled The Fifth Web. My heart is for healing and reconciliation and always has been.

      Lastly, I am sad that you felt you couldn’t expose who you are to me. But I am so grateful that you love Red Mountain and you faithfully serve there. Children’s is an incredible ministry and led by an incredible woman.

      May God bless you with His tender, stedfast “hesed” love,

      Hallie

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  29. Wow! I was deeply immersed in your story and I can truly relate to being treated how you all were treated. It is very disheartening and frustrating when people just basically throw you away over mental health issues. I understand this pain from previous experiences I have had in my life. Good for you for writing your truth. Stand in your truth and story and know that sometimes God closes one door to open another, better one. I think it was wise to take yourselves out of that seemingly toxic situation. Kudos to you from Maria in Shanghai.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Thank you so much for this kind reply!

      Like

  30. I just stumbled on your Blog Hallie. When I prayed for your family I wasn’t sure what I was praying for other than comfort, peace and support. Gary and knew nothing that was happening to you and your family. Just before your family left the church I actually said to you. Should I still be praying for your son. I remember the look on your face and you said. Yes definitely. I am one of those who didn’t reach and I am so sorry. Love to all. Wanda Lucht

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About Me

My name is Hallie Carl. I am a wife (to Lee), mom (to Caleb and Isaiah) and the two things I am most passionate about are books (so many) and dogs (Enzo, Tonks and Ahsoka).

I formerly worked as a Pastor, where I was passionate about leading and guiding women in their walks and through hard things. I also loved reading and teaching the Bible.

I care deeply for the overlooked and misunderstood. I believe each person on earth deserves to be treated with value, empathy, compassion and love, even at our most unlovely moments.

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